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Cal Hurst

A lot of people see the word PvP and immediately think one of the following: "Twink, Powergamers, Drama, AVOID." But without PvP, roleplaying would consist of a bunch of demigods running around matrix-style slapping eachother with an equal amount of matrix-style dodging.

Now it's no secret that Legion was incredible at PvP. But we didn't recruit people that were good at PvP specifically. Sure, we had some natural talent. But a lot of the people who joined the Legion were not that good at PvP. It took a willingness to learn, and a willingness to realize that it's not all that hard.

The best way to do this was to hold training sessions. And I know a lot of you hold training sessions, but 99% of your training sessions are just X vs Y, wall drop, fight. Sure, you'll learn a thing or two, but that's the long road.

I'll share with you some of the things I did with Legion to make people realize that PvP is a lot of fun, and when it is broken down, it's easy to learn.

Endurance - This is a training exercise that combines both crosshealing and offensive power. There are two people who are chosen to be 'tested.' They line up against two opponents and fight. However, there is a caller on the sideline that will tell those who are in line waiting to join the fight against those being tested. If those being tested play too much defense, they will be overloaded with opponents. If they play too much offense, they expose themselves and are usually brought down swiftly.
*NOTE* No pair in Legion ever won the Endurance round. But they all learned a lot.

Assassin - This exercise teaches every person involved how to fight in a 2 on 1 scenario. Each person is given a book. In that book is a list of names. You will be attacked by the person listed above you, and it is your job to kill the person below you. This teaches each person to balance a steady offense and defense in a 2 on 1 situation. When you kill your target, you go down to the next member. It will end when there are two people left, and then they kill eachother!

Relying Team Duels - This exercise focuses on crosshealing. People pair up, or triple up, and square off to fight. The only stipulation to these fights is that you are NOT allowed to heal yourself, unless you are the last person on your team left alive.

Capture the Flag - Each team strips down to nothing but a half apron. Everyone has weapons, reagents, and a shield if need be. Casting jewelry is also OK. Now each team designates someone who will capture the flag. They will hold NO weapon (unless they have wrestling, then they will hold a bow, with no arrows). We did this at the Jhelom Farms, so each farm was a base. The flag was a bagball. Now the bagball can't be put into a backpack. They must toss it square by square. But a team cannot move their own flag. If Team B goes into Team A's base and moves the flag 5 tiles, then it is moved 5 tiles for good. First team to get the other teams flag back to where their flag's starting point is, wins. Also note that the flag starting point should be designated by a 3x3 area consisting of 9-6coin piles.
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Kard Ticklesong · Adventurer Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 97

I personally avoid pvp for the fact that I do not enjoy it. But you know what? I don't go around Emote fighting either. I think that the mentality that RP cannot exist without PVP is a very damaging and dangerous way to think, since PVP in many communities has been what ultimately destroyed it.

But luckily, here, we have a nice balance. We have the people that like to fight, and are good at it, and then the tavern roleplayers. It works out pretty well from what I can see.

Just my thoughts.

Cal Hurst · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:06 am Post subject:

You have your way of thinking, I have mine. With the absence of PvP as a game mechanic, RP would be a lot worse off. People WOULD RP Demigods. Look at Trammel. Lots of people abuse the "blue mentality" to say what they wish, and do what they want, without fear of being attacked.
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Teh Glouris Lrod Kujabis · Transcendent Spammer Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 5740

Galnor_Bloodmoon · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:22 am Post subject:

PvP is fine and those that wish to learn it to better there situation will. However there also needs to be an understanding that not everyone builds combative templates (crafters, performers etc). They need to realize this and not complain about PvP and the fighters need to realize that not everyone is a combatant which does not mean they cannot whack em but there might be other ways around that.

Im not saying anyone here is stating such and the advise given is good advise not only to better a guilds bite but to enhance any rped training. Wars, sabatoge, assassinations etc are fun plots. But perhaps what people are afraid of is just random combat with no real rp signifigance other then "arg i dont like your shoes." Afterall shoes are important..

Darrien Church · Honored Member Joined: 06 Jun 2004 Posts: 1810

I personally am not at all a decent PvPer...

That being said, the type of RP we have in UO on a large scale such as good vs. evil could not happen without it.

It's essential, it's risky, and it makes things fun.

Even for me...who I joke you not has never won a duel in his undead-life.

X'eros De'Vir · Journeyman Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Posts: 133

I agree with Vaen on this one. I am slowly getting used to pvping with the template that i have. Although i do not have the expensive toys, i seem to manage pretty well. I also believe that the rp guilds all need to war each other in case a conflict arises, and not just good vs bad, but also if two bad characters from different guilds have a conflict, or two good characters have a conflict. That is just my two cents.

And as the great and wise Kitsune says, CREPES RULE, PANCAKES SUXXORS!"

Tay Thormear · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:18 pm Post subject:

Just a little "side note" to go along with this thread. People that have not always been good at PvP, have worked their way up in the rp community in fighting..some have also won tournaments. Examples:

Fong - Terrible - Became pretty good.
Truth - Terrible - Became pretty good.
Cat Lyxen - TAILOR - Won a joustin tournament (or more?)
Max (gm on an allied guild to Legion)- Wasnt completely dominated, but got killing hits on the top faction pvpers, and beat one of the best in a jousting tournament

The list goes on..some people have not always had the gear, or the concept of pvp..but have made it by in battles..or have learned and become some of the teachers of this community. I guess Im just saying that theres hope for anyone...even Darrien...

NightShade · Lore Master Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 1152

Everyone is entitled to their opinion however, let me say this.

I started this game out fresh and new on a character that would not fight ever. Ie a Druid female who loved nature. Good times!

However slowly my evil side took over and eventually you have the snarky irritating evil female you see before you.

Many times when I rp'd I would find myself making threats, behaving as if I could take someone out.

I asked myself, for the sake of my own realism in my character, What is a vampire that cant fight? I felt as if I was portraying Nightshade as this warrior female vampire, but not able to back it up in any way.

This bothered me greatly, I myself wanted to feel the realism of Nightshade and know that she could hold her own in a battle. Now she is definitely not a fel quality fighter. I would not go red hunting with her. However she is not a peice of cake to knock to the ground either. (Well most the time hehehe depends whose pushing) So when Nightshade walks up and grabs someone by the throat and flings them, I know that she is strong enough and capable enough for me to find this beleivable to myself.

It does not mean that I think people who dont do this cant, it is just for my own personal feeling of immersion into the RP.

So to me its important for this reason but it doesnt have to be to you...

Love you alllllll
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Cal Hurst · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:40 pm Post subject:

Max is my favorite example, and it was a team effort. He can kick some ass. Or could, he doesn't play anymore. But I bet he still could Wink

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Cear Dallben ZOG · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject:

what scott thinks:

PvP is definatly nessesary in RP. but the way i see us doing it pretty much makes me wanna chug liquid nail. Now i never intended to be a pvper. i wanted to be a cheapskate assassin. Ive killed a few people but the majority of UO can kill me in a few hits.

what im getting at it that RP should definatly come first. and....nope, not pvp, but RP come in last too.

an example is that i dont drop alchemy stealth tracking hiding ect for
120 in all of my combat skills. people should simply PvP the way their char was built to RP. if your a carpenter and you Player town/guild drafts you into a war. you petter grab a pitchfork and go into battle and fight carelessly.

and if your not an archer, there is no reason to go into battle wiht a quiver or anything stuipd like that. when i go into fights thesedays.....i see that and do end up chugging liquid nail. please help me to stop this.

one of my members would have loved to come to fight a few nights ago but almost diddnt cause her magery isnt that high.

PLEASE DO NOT FEEL PRESSURE TO BE KICKASS AT PVP.

she joined the fight, diddnt die as far as i know. but we wont some of the battles it was all good fun.

Sadly.....some people in this game ARE demigods. most people fear they MUST have 120 parry and sacrafice jewles that may enhance there RP'd profession, for assoalds of HCI DCI.....sickly true. When i began experimenting this pvp on cear it was a blast. then power scrolls and ect, i still do it and try to have fun but i usually must give up or draw cause no one hits anyone the entire time. there is no way to regulate this but count on people to make sure they consider RP first and last. THEN GO PVP! Woot!

life is good.

Cear Dallben of the Kick Asss Cabal
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Cal Hurst · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject:

With the items of quivers and stuff, that is all dependant upon how you look at it from the GAME WORLD point of view, rather than the REAL WORLD point of view.

In the game world, this "Quiver of Infinity" has some sort of magical power to make people miss their attacks when they attack you.

In the real world, that is ridiculous and not possible.

But truth be told, we don't play UO by real world physics and logics. We play UO by Ultima logics. Ultima logics say that this quiver has some kind of magical power that will move you away from a possible blow.

This is why some leather armor is stronger than metal armor, this is why we can hold chests inside chests inside armoires inside chests in our backpacks.

We go by UO's logic.
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Doireann · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject:

*grins* Well we all know I love a good fight on Doireann, even if I lose horribly. It is her personality and I truthfully love it. However, Xandria... even at her best, she hates to fight. She considers it unclean, and may potentially ruin her clothes.

However, I love the "Assassin" idea Vaen. That would come in real handy.

NightShade · Lore Master Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 1152

(See when Cear is pushing I fall)

See my sig, he just pushed me! I am trying to get back up hehehehe
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Something is Wrong, I can still feel Existence...

Cear Dallben ZOG · Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject:

But truth be told, we don't play UO by real world physics and logics. We play UO by Ultima logics. Ultima logics say that this quiver has some kind of magical power that will move you away from a possible blow.

thats really opinion.

the way i see it relevant items(be sides armor) are used to build your char the way you want to RP your char as it makes sence
I RP an avid and experienced alchemist. I do not RP im some average joe who found some bracelet that made the potions someone else made kick ass when he throws them. if i did i would give up alchemy you know?
could be wrong. but thats how i see it. in fact i think i just contradicted myself. but you really have to be me to understand. goign into battle and seeing everyone wearing a quiver really does disgust me.
for me UO is real world. and if i saw anything i saw in uo out here. i would wig. none of it makes sence.

we have conflicting views on what quality RP is. its cool tho thats how it will be.

tired of not making sence. going away now
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